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Post by FincanSJGM on Feb 23, 2007 2:32:53 GMT -5
Im gonna pollute this board some more by starting a battle of the bands. 16 great bands going head to head playoff style. I will leave the votes up for about 4-5 days and then advance the winner to round 2. With only 16 bands many will be left off but not everybody can be invovled. I tried to pick bands that are well known and popular and that captured different genres and periods. Some are redundant but some bands just could not be left off.
Anyway, the 16 bands are: U2, ACDC, Metallica, Pink Floyd, Nirvana, Tool, Smashing Pumpkins, Led Zepplin, GNR, Rage Against the Machine, The Beatles, The Ramones, System of A Down, KISS, Radiohead, The Rolling Stones
Yes I left off The Clash, Motley Crue, The Sex Pistols, Ozzy, Soundgarden, Korn, The Doors, RHCP, etc and Im sure I will wake up tomorow and realise I left off someone huge, but this is just who its gonna be. I'll make the polls and then go to bed. I will not vote first. I will wait until some votes are up.
Here is the Playoff tree. I drew names from a hat to determing the pools and matchups:
Pool A Led Zepplin 6 The Smashing Pumpkins 5 -------->Led Zepplin My Pumpkins did better than I expected, Today the Pumpkins will climb that Stairway to Heaven
GNR 5 The Stones 6 ----------------> The Stones Close Battle, Dont Cry just ease the pain by nailing some Honky Tonk Woman
U2 8 Rage 3 ---------------------------> U2 Rage got owned, left dizzy from the Vertigo
ACDC 2 Nirvana 9 ---------------------> Nirvana I love the results, we are not Dumb here
PoolB The Beatles 7 System of A Down 5--------------->The Beatles The mop heads with a come from behind victory, Yeah Yeah Yeah
Tool 2 Pink Floyd 9--------------->Pink Floyd potential powerhouse Tool got bad luck by drawing the tournament favourite leaving them feeling Comfortably Numb
Radiohead 6 KISS 4-----------------------> Radiohead Detroit Rock City got left High and Dry
The Ramones 3 Metallica 8--------------------->Metallica The Ramones might Wanna be Sedated, but instead were left Unforgiven.
Round 2 Round two saw each match-up decided by a single vote. Personal note, after going 4 for 8 in round 1 I was 4 for 4 in round 2.
Pool A Led Zeppelin 6 The Rolling Stones 7 ---------------------------> The Rolling Stones Even Though Zeppelin gotta Whole Lotta Love it wasnt enough and that was much to the Stones Satisfaction
U2 6 Nirvana 7---------------------------------> Nirvana It may not be Sunday, but U2 still thinks it a bloody day after Nirvana springs to round 3 In Bloom
Pool B The Beatles 6 Pink Floyd 7 -------------------------------->Pink Floyd The Beatles will have to just Let It Be and move on after Floyd puts Another Brick in the Wall on their way up the charts.
Radiohead 7 Metallica 6 --------------------------------->Radiohead Radiohead trailed early and were feeling like a Paranoid Android about their chances of advancing, but in the end Metallica had to Fade to Black and bow out.
Round 3 Pool A The Rolling Stones7 Nirvana 6 ------------------------------------>The Stones Nirvana looked like they may advance but said Nevermind as they walk the Streets of Love dijected.
Pool B Pink Floyd 10 Radiohead 3 --------------------------------> Pink Floyd Floyd advances easily proving the the shine of a Black Star pales in comparison to the Shine on Crazy Diamond.
Round 4-The Finals Final Pool The Rolling Stones 6 Pink Floyd 5 --------------------------------->The Stones
Stones are champs.
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Post by FincanSJGM on Feb 23, 2007 8:29:22 GMT -5
bumb so this is at top to explain the other posts
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Post by Nashville Predators on Feb 25, 2007 15:28:42 GMT -5
What criteria is everyone using to determine the winner?
Personal preference? Album sales? Hit singles? General popularity? Longevity? Cross-generational appeal?
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Post by FincanSJGM on Feb 25, 2007 22:03:01 GMT -5
Pesonal preference. I would hope that is how everyone else is voting too. If it was by hits or record sales or so forth it would have just been easier to look up figures
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Post by FincanSJGM on Mar 2, 2007 21:49:39 GMT -5
updated for round 2
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Post by penguinsgm on Mar 3, 2007 10:47:46 GMT -5
What happened to GNR and Smashing Pumpkins? They both tied their 1st round battles and yet we don't see them here.
RIGGED!!!
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Post by FincanSJGM on Mar 3, 2007 11:30:59 GMT -5
the votes were up for over a week. At the time I did round 2 both of those bands were losing (just yesterday evening). Someone decided to FINALLY vote only after I made round 2. The results listed above behind the names were what the votes were at.
If I was going to swing it one way or another I would have went for the Pumpkns and GNR as those are the bands I voted for in both those battles.
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Post by KingsGM on Mar 6, 2007 11:19:50 GMT -5
The results of Round 1 have left me absolutely disgusted. GnR, Rage and The Ramones lost.
THE FUCKING RAMONES??
Good lord people what is wrong with you?
Also, I would like anyone who voted for System of a Down over the Beatles to jam screwdrivers into your ears right now, because you don't deserve to hear music ever again.
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Post by FincanSJGM on Mar 10, 2007 16:21:55 GMT -5
updated
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Post by Eric - Washington GM on Mar 12, 2007 19:44:54 GMT -5
The results of Round 1 have left me absolutely disgusted. GnR, Rage and The Ramones lost. THE FUCKING RAMONES?? Good lord people what is wrong with you? Also, I would like anyone who voted for System of a Down over the Beatles to jam screwdrivers into your ears right now, because you don't deserve to hear music ever again. Voting for Beatles over System Of A Down is like voting for a Caveman over Lance Armstrong in who used the wheel better. Sometime people just come along and do things better.
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Post by carolinagm on May 19, 2007 17:25:09 GMT -5
The whole thing was a schmuck anyhow. Everyone knows in a real battle the top 5 would be Led Zeppelin, Beatles, Rollingstones,Pink Floyd and ACDC ( the power 5 )
Ramones, System Of A Down, Rage Against The Machine and The Smashing Pumpkins would not even crack the top 100
Better Bands to have included would have been Black Sabbath, Rush, Deep Purple, Aerosmith, BTO, Boston, Chicago, CCR, Def Leppard, Eagles, Queen, Genesis, Guess Who, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Jimi Hendrix, Motley Crue, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Styx, Supertamp, Tesla, Tragically Hip , Triumph, Van Halen, The Who, ZZ Top
Special note goes to unfortunately Beach Boys, Bon Jovi, Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Michael Jackson, Bruce Springsteen Aretha Franklin and Bob Dylan
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Post by montrealgm on May 19, 2007 18:39:08 GMT -5
The whole thing was a schmuck anyhow. Everyone knows in a real battle the top 5 would be Led Zeppelin, Beatles, Rollingstones,Pink Floyd and ACDC ( the power 5 ) Ramones, System Of A Down, Rage Against The Machine and The Smashing Pumpkins would not even crack the top 100 Better Bands to have included would have been Black Sabbath, Rush, Deep Purple, Aerosmith, BTO, Boston, Chicago, CCR, Def Leppard, Eagles, Queen, Genesis, Guess Who, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Jimi Hendrix, Motley Crue, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Styx, Supertamp, Tesla, Tragically Hip , Triumph, Van Halen, The Who, ZZ Top Special note goes to unfortunately Beach Boys, Bon Jovi, Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, Michael Jackson, Bruce Springsteen Aretha Franklin and Bob Dylan Better bands according to you, I could name many people who can't stand bands like Sabbath, the Beatles and Michalek Jackson. Everyone has their favorite bands and who they think are the best to them, no way I'd ever vote for the Beatles in any category just because I don't really like their music - but I wasn't around when they first became huge and don't see the big deal about it. Gimme some Rage though and I'm all set, they are great. Obviously Beatles >> any band ever in terms of accomplishments or awards or whatever but I wouldn't listen to them unless you paid me to.
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Post by FincanSJGM on May 19, 2007 18:52:05 GMT -5
Black Sabbath, Aerosmith, ACDC, Def Leppard, Motley Crue, Supertamp, ZZ Top, Bon Jovi and on and on
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Post by carolinagm on May 19, 2007 20:48:41 GMT -5
Now just so you understand I never said they were who I liked and whether you like them or not if you were to go a worldwide poll on rock and roll what i put is what you would get. Of course if your music abilities only came to light since the year 2000 then I would completely understand. Can't expect you to appreciate the reason why you have a Rage Against the Machine. Maybe if you were a little more open to all instead of sheltering yourself with the new puppy stuff of this era, you would appreciate just how good this stuff was. Anyhow my post was not to knock who you like but just to merely state a fact. Click On Great animated Video by Bobby Standridge when you click on this link something for all to see. www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Neilpeartair.html
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Post by Eric - Washington GM on May 20, 2007 2:38:18 GMT -5
Now just so you understand I never said they were who I liked and whether you like them or not if you were to go a worldwide poll on rock and roll what i put is what you would get. Of course if your music abilities only came to light since the year 2000 then I would completely understand. Can't expect you to appreciate the reason why you have a Rage Against the Machine. Maybe if you were a little more open to all instead of sheltering yourself with the new puppy stuff of this era, you would appreciate just how good this stuff was. Anyhow my post was not to knock who you like but just to merely state a fact. Click On Great animated Video by Bobby Standridge when you click on this link something for all to see. www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Neilpeartair.htmlBut by your same idea the best bands would be the ones that came before the Beatles. It seems as if your argument is that the longer they've been around, the better they are. I think that there have been better bands as of late. Some of you might disagree, you're welcome to. Doesn't matter. does it? Music is a preference.
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Post by FincanSJGM on May 20, 2007 3:09:11 GMT -5
In the very first post it talks about how the bands were selected from different eras and genres of rock, that was intentional. I tried to pick (one of) the best representatives from different periods and genres, and sometimes had two. I had a lot of bands up there that I dont like at all (ACDC, KISS) and left off many bands that I do like in an effort to get a fair representation. If you will notice though, all 5 bands you listed as the must haves were included in the poll so I guess I dont get what the contention is.
You say "Power 5"who you listed is who we would get in a wolrd wide poll like it is a fact. Well based on the small sample of this league, ACDC was not so obviously in the top 5 as you suggested. They got their ass handed to them by Nirvana, and U2 faired much better against Nirvana so that would imply that they too would have beat ACDC (although not neccessarily). Now, maybe this is not representative of world opinion, but it is a lot larger sample size than the opinion of just you. So obviously "everyone" doesnt know that "in a real battle" the top 5 would have to include ACDC.
I admit that I like some less than able groups such as Bon Jovi. I call them a guilty pleasure of mine, why? they are for the most part untalented musicians who have re-released the same song again and again, survived off of hooks, and generally lack creativity. Like them fine, but to consider them one of the greates bands? To each their own I guess but it is just as easy if not easier to knock them as it is bands such as the Ramones. Based on criteria I like to use to judge bands as great, Bon Jovi does not meet it so I didnt even consider including them.
The bands that I put up there are up there for a variety of reasons, creativeness (Tool, Radiohead), quality of music (Floyd), ability as musicans (zepplin), the effect they had on culture (Beatles, Nirvana, Ramones) Longevity while re-inventing themselves (Metallica, U2), Influence on music (Stones, Rage) or just because other people like them for some reason and they sold records (ACDC, KISS). Some of these bands can fit in to all of these categories, some in just a few but many bands on your list would not fit in to any of them except for maybe the latter. Some of the bands you listed might have sold a lot of records, but the fact that Gwen Stefani and Fergie sell a lot of records also should shed light on how much that really means.
BTW I dont care for Rage Against the Machine, but they were a pioneer in their genre so I included them. And to suggest that the Ramones would not even crack a top 100 poll I think shows an ignorance to the impact they had on music and pop culture in Britain (which is arguably the most influential country in the workd for rock and pehaps even music in general)
But this is just my opionion, a reasoned opnion, at least Id like to think it was, maybe it wasnt. But Id hope it better than simply stating an unsupported opinion and claiming it as fact.
Part of my disdain for the popular rock of the 80s such as Motley Crue and ACDC (although loved British Punk during this period and GnR and Metallica) is that the 80s sucked ass in general. It was the black spot of the 20th centurey (damn glad I missed being born in that shitty decade by 9 months). After epic movies in the 70s such as the Star Wars, Godfather, Apocolypse now and so forth we had Indiana Jones, ET, Ghostbusters, Rambo, Top Gun, and Batman as top movies of the 80s and even good movies were brought down by the cheesey 80s style use of bad 80s music. Most of the better movies were sequals to 70s blockbusters. The clothes were bad, the hair was bad, Cars were ugly, rock was in a funk that grundge had to pull the genre out of. It was just BAAAAD. But it is just my opinion that the 80s sucked. Only good thing about the 80s was 4 cups for the Oilers.
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Post by carolinagm on May 20, 2007 8:25:42 GMT -5
Can't figure how you consider the Ramones an icon of some sort. I remember being at a concert where they were one of the opening groups and the crowd booed them off the stage and threw beer bottles at them. If you were going to use a band as a British Culture than you would have to use the Sex Pistols. Also I did not say Bon Jovi was a group I liked just a band that Unfortunately deserved mention cause whether you like them or not theeir record sales say otherwise as in every other band I have mentioned. If you are going to use a band that typically started a style that still goes today quote your era then why is Offspring not in the mix ? And last but not least you stated how some of our bands ride the hooks of the same tune in that era seems to me Nickelback does a pretty good job of that in this era as well. System Of A Down killed your little poll in my opinion and your idea of what good music is. Geesh oh well I will say no more on this matter. Just thought I would stir the pot a bit.
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Post by FincanSJGM on May 20, 2007 13:01:55 GMT -5
Sorry if I made it sound like the Ramones were British, they are American, but they just had a British style. Along with The Sex Pistols and The Clash (who claim the Ramones as an inspiration) and other groups of the sort were pioneers in Punk, music that really took off in England and laid the ground work for a genre. The Ramones influence can be seen on numerous bands such as The Clash, The Dead Kennedys, Green Day, Rancid, and Black Flag. Their tribute album included covers by Green Day, U2, RHCP, Offspring, Rob Zombie, Marlyn Manson and others. They often appear on lists of Top 100 Rock Bands. So I dont think Im that crazy to see them as iconic.
Using record sales alone to determine great bands is narrow-minded IMO. You mention Nickelback and really they are evidence of this IMO and fall under that Gwen Stefani category. Yeah Nickelback does do the same thing as Bon Jovi does and I dont care for Nickelback at all. I also said I do like Bon Jovi, I just said further that they are not a good band. I can like bands that in the grand scheme of things are not that good, just like I dont like some bands who are obviously talented and creative musicians (Ie. I dont care for Incubus or Queen). For me with Bon Jovi, I just find their songs fun to sing along with.
If you dont like System, that is fine. The reason that groups of different genres are in there is to have variety of style and period. I like them, so do many other people, others dont. It's fine. Im sure I think some bands you like suck too.
I love the Offspring, they are not in the mix though as I could only have 16 bands. Several bands who are not up there could have been.
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Post by carolinagm on May 20, 2007 15:01:35 GMT -5
Actually I like System Of A Down in a weird sort of way... guess that is necessary. I am actually a huge Alice In Chains Fan but I know they would never be considered a contender in such battles as they just did not have the fan base needed to compete. I am not knocking any of the music or groups you choose, I actually love all music. But I think record sales pretty much tell you what is popular and what is not. I actually have no use for Pink Floyd at all ,too mellow for me, but I have to give them there kudos, for who they are and what they have done.
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Post by Nashville Predators on May 20, 2007 17:47:05 GMT -5
I don't think any current band that has come out of the 90s or 00s will be as revered in 30 years as Led Zepplin is today. It's all industry and production for most new music the past decade...
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Post by Eric - Washington GM on May 20, 2007 20:33:46 GMT -5
I don't think any current band that has come out of the 90s or 00s will be as revered in 30 years as Led Zepplin is today. It's all industry and production for most new music the past decade... For as good as Zepplin was. They are the thieves of the music world. A good portion of their hits were lifted from Southern Blues and Jazz artists who were too poor or died to early to know of the crime. Not to say that other bands don't do the same thing and won't in the future. But to such a magnitude that they are revered, they were pretty bad. Carlos Mencia and Dane Cook type bad.
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Post by FincanSJGM on May 20, 2007 21:20:52 GMT -5
It's all industry and production for most new music the past decade... The thing is that it was back then too.
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Post by Eric - Washington GM on May 21, 2007 1:18:41 GMT -5
Part of my disdain for the popular rock of the 80s such as Motley Crue and ACDC (although loved British Punk during this period and GnR and Metallica) is that the 80s sucked ass in general. It was the black spot of the 20th centurey (damn glad I missed being born in that shitty decade by 9 months). After epic movies in the 70s such as the Star Wars, Godfather, Apocolypse now and so forth we had Indiana Jones, ET, Ghostbusters, Rambo, Top Gun, and Batman as top movies of the 80s and even good movies were brought down by the cheesey 80s style use of bad 80s music. Most of the better movies were sequals to 70s blockbusters. The clothes were bad, the hair was bad, Cars were ugly, rock was in a funk that grundge had to pull the genre out of. It was just BAAAAD. But it is just my opinion that the 80s sucked. Only good thing about the 80s was 4 cups for the Oilers. Call me too much of a fucking kid, but the 80's had the greatest foundation of cartoons. Plus the late 80's had the birth of some great rock groups. Only think I;ll agree with you on the 80's was their movies were sub-par to the surrounding decades.
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Post by Nashville Predators on May 21, 2007 9:27:38 GMT -5
Heading OT here but I LOVE 80s movies. Some of my most favourite movies as a kid and still I enjoy them today are from that decade: Goonies, Ghostbusters, Indiana Jones, Top Gun (a little corny but I like it still), Stand By Me, Nation Lampoons Vacation - European Vacation - Christmas Vacation, Short Circuit, Full Metal Jacket, Platoon. What I liked about 80s movies is that they were original. Most of today's movies are a rip off of each other in each genre... in the 80s you had Beetlejuice, Weird Science, Spaceballs, Labrynth, Dark Crystal, Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure, ET, Willow, The Lost Boys, Back to the Future series... if any of these were made now they'd be CGI mammoths with EXPLOSIONS in every other scene. There are few movies from the 90s I cherish as much as those from the 80s. just off the top of my head... and I agree with Eric some of my favourite and most beloved cartoons were from the 80s: GI Joe (original series), Wuzzles (for one season), Fragile Rock, Gummy Bears, Transformers, etc... and The Hilarious House of Frightenstein (made in the 70s but I watched in the 80s) etc etc... FAR FAR FAR better than what YTV has now: Yo Gi Oh, Pokemon, DraganballZ, etc... CRAP www.retrojunk.com/
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Post by Nashville Predators on May 21, 2007 9:41:44 GMT -5
I don't think any current band that has come out of the 90s or 00s will be as revered in 30 years as Led Zepplin is today. It's all industry and production for most new music the past decade... For as good as Zepplin was. They are the thieves of the music world. A good portion of their hits were lifted from Southern Blues and Jazz artists who were too poor or died to early to know of the crime. Not to say that other bands don't do the same thing and won't in the future. But to such a magnitude that they are revered, they were pretty bad. Carlos Mencia and Dane Cook type bad. I'd love to read any information you have on those with such a strong statement I'd assume it's not just heresay.
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Post by Eric - Washington GM on May 21, 2007 10:11:54 GMT -5
www.amazon.com/Sounds-Like-Teen-Spirit-Ripped-Off/dp/0595396194From Wikipedia: "While the album received generally positive reviews, some derided it, most famously John Mendelsohn of Rolling Stone magazine, who savaged the band for stealing music, notably "Black Mountain Side" from Bert Jansch's "Black Water Side" and the riff from "Your Time Is Gonna Come" from Traffic's "Dear Mr. Fantasy". He also accused the band of mimicking black artists, and showing off. This marked the beginning of a long rift between the band and the magazine, with Led Zeppelin rejecting later requests for interviews and cover stories as their level of success escalated." I've heard a lot of hearsay, but right now I've just spent about 5 minutes for looking for it and I've already found a few examples. The Song 'Taurus' by a band called Spirit, is oddly close Stairway to Heaven. Also, the song 'Dazed and Confused' by Jake Holmes, sounds the same as Zeppelins rendition of the same title. I don't have all the facts, but I've heard a few people who follow music for a profession that Zeppelin (while good), weren't as creative as they were made out to be. I remember hearing on a radio show where they had a segment dedicated to this and there were about 4 Zeppelin songs. I apologize for not knowing more, but theres a start.
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Post by Bruins GM on May 21, 2007 11:57:02 GMT -5
www.amazon.com/Sounds-Like-Teen-Spirit-Ripped-Off/dp/0595396194From Wikipedia: "While the album received generally positive reviews, some derided it, most famously John Mendelsohn of Rolling Stone magazine, who savaged the band for stealing music, notably "Black Mountain Side" from Bert Jansch's "Black Water Side" and the riff from "Your Time Is Gonna Come" from Traffic's "Dear Mr. Fantasy". He also accused the band of mimicking black artists, and showing off. This marked the beginning of a long rift between the band and the magazine, with Led Zeppelin rejecting later requests for interviews and cover stories as their level of success escalated." I've heard a lot of hearsay, but right now I've just spent about 5 minutes for looking for it and I've already found a few examples. The Song 'Taurus' by a band called Spirit, is oddly close Stairway to Heaven. Also, the song 'Dazed and Confused' by Jake Holmes, sounds the same as Zeppelins rendition of the same title. I don't have all the facts, but I've heard a few people who follow music for a profession that Zeppelin (while good), weren't as creative as they were made out to be. I remember hearing on a radio show where they had a segment dedicated to this and there were about 4 Zeppelin songs. I apologize for not knowing more, but theres a start. I've read this before too. I'd still love to have all their money though.
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Post by carolinagm on May 21, 2007 18:24:25 GMT -5
Well having been a die hard Zepp fan for at least 35 years now I was not at all shocked at these accusations. In the beginning years Zeppelins influence of the blues was very dominant and in the case of Dazed and Confused there is no doubt it was a hard core version of the original from Jake Holmes. Black Mountain Side was never covered up as being an original and I can't quit you baby is a typical slow blues rift which can be traced to at least a million songs. However in the case of Taurus from "Spirit" being a direct link to Starway To Heaven I certainly have to rebut that statement. There is absolutely no resemblance of either tune with the exception of a couple of chords not more than 2 bars long at best and even then it is not quite the same. In fact it reminded me of another song ( which I could not put my finger on at this point ) much more as I was humming along with it. If 4 or 5 songs is all they are concerned out of how many fantastic tunes, then I would say Led Zeppelin earns their number 1 status of all time quite easily as the hits, sound and spectacular arrangements and level of musicianship at all instruments and vocals. They deserve to be revered for all time. Thats Right I said "ALLTIME". Yes Jimmy Page ws often considered to be somewhat sloppy in his performances. Would you not be? He was often experimenting with the tunes as he was playing. Robert Plant often said Jimmy led the band where he wished and they would just follow his lead. It was a different song every night with him. So yeah I would say due to the complicity of the solos on any given night, sloppy was something that could happen. The creativety was second to none and anyone who wishes to argue with this has no musical inclination at all. So did they use a few songs that were not there own? Damn right they did ! But then every damn Rock and Country Band out there right now, this includes of course Hip and Rap copy everyone elses music before they make it on their own. This includes Rage and Smashing Pumpkins. ( Not meant to be a knock on your bands just an example ) Hell even Jimi Hendrix played other peoples songs and borrowed a rifts along the way I am sure.
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Post by Eric - Washington GM on May 21, 2007 21:16:18 GMT -5
It's your opinion.
all that music is.
in my book, they'd barely crack the top 150
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Post by Nashville Predators on May 23, 2007 20:47:37 GMT -5
It's your opinion. all that music is. in my book, they'd barely crack the top 150 Wow. Bold statement.
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