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Post by FincanSJGM on Jun 22, 2007 12:02:33 GMT -5
Wow, Im so completely torn. I love Vesa and have wanted him to get a chance to start somewhere (Razor isnt even close skill wise) but to a team I hate? Wow, well I will cheer for Vesa regardless but damn, the Leafs of all teams, one of the 4 teams I cant stand. (an FYI the others are Stars, Flames, and Ducks)
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Post by coloradogm on Jun 22, 2007 12:13:41 GMT -5
Complete and utter garbage! As a lifelong Leafs fans I have to say that this could be the last straw.
First, you roll the dice by giving up top goaltending prospect Rask for Raycroft. Then when that doesn't work out, you mortgage more of your future by moving your first and second round draft choices for a 30-year old tender who will just eat up more cap space, and a 3rd line centre in Bell...
The Leafs have over $30 million tied up in their defence, goaltending and Sundin. That doesn't leave much for offense. I am utterly disappointed by the direction this team is heading. I am sure the Sens would love more fans! Heck, bring the Preds to Hamilton from Nashville and I would even cheer for them.
JFJ must go!
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Post by STLGM on Jun 22, 2007 12:20:29 GMT -5
Vesa might be better then Raycroft, but Raycroft wasn't the reason the Leafs missed the playoffs this year, and unless JFJ fixes the D and gets some to score a few more goals it doesn't matter who is in net.
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Post by FincanSJGM on Jun 22, 2007 12:32:50 GMT -5
Complete and utter garbage! As a lifelong Leafs fans I have to say that this could be the last straw. First, you roll the dice by giving up top goaltending prospect Rask for Raycroft. Then when that doesn't work out, you mortgage more of your future by moving your first and second round draft choices for a 30-year old tender who will just eat up more cap space, and a 3rd line centre in Bell... The Leafs have over $30 million tied up in their defence, goaltending and Sundin. That doesn't leave much for offense. I am utterly disappointed by the direction this team is heading. I am sure the Sens would love more fans! Heck, bring the Preds to from Nashville and I could even cheer for them. JFJ must go! You realise that Toskala only makes 1.3 million right? He also has the highest winning % of any goalie in the nhl over the past two seasons last time i checked during the season (of goalies who have played a significant number of games). Plus 30 isnt old for a goalie. Considering it is not an overly deep draft, getting two guys of this ilk is a solid move for the Leafs. Bell had an off year, but there is every chance he will bounce back to be a solid 2nd liner. If I was gonna be mad at JFJ it would be for Kubinas contract
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Post by coloradogm on Jun 22, 2007 12:46:24 GMT -5
You realise that Toskala only makes 1.3 million right? He also has the highest winning % of any goalie in the nhl over the past two seasons last time i checked during the season (of goalies who have played a significant number of games). Plus 30 isnt old for a goalie. Considering it is not an overly deep draft, getting two guys of this ilk is a solid move for the Leafs. Bell had an off year, but there is every chance he will bounce back to be a solid 2nd liner. If I was gonna be mad at JFJ it would be for Kubinas contract From what I understand, he is in the last year of that contract and will be a UFA after this season. If the Leafs can't sign him, they will have given up a 1st, a 2nd and a 4th for Bell and the use of Toskala for a season. Basically, by taking Toskala it signifies that they are giving up on Raycroft. Bottom line is this... The Leafs aren't interest in rebuilding their team through the draft. The Leafs have always been far too impatient and will never do anything in the playoffs with such a mentality. If we could only get a guy like Brian Burke to run the team things might be different. Also, I don't see Bell as bouncing back as a 2nd liner. Perhaps on this Leafs team he might play on the 2nd line, but only because they have no one better. Put him on the Sens, Sabres, Ducks or anyone else for that matter that made it out of the 1st round of the playoffs and he is a 3rd or 4th line player at best. Sad days in Leafs land... Almost as bad as the Ballard days... The only thing that might make me change my tune is if the Leafs unload McCabe or Kubina for some young talent (or a couple natural right wingers - I think Ondrus is the only one on the team).
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Post by coloradogm on Jun 22, 2007 13:20:39 GMT -5
San Jose also has the right to take the Leafs 2008 1st rounder instead of this year's 1st round pick if the player they want isn't available when it comes time to draft. I wonder who "the player" is.
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Post by edmontongm on Jun 22, 2007 20:47:24 GMT -5
Well that was a surprise. At work, listening to TSN all day - finding this out. Toskala is a minor upgrade from Raycroft, and Mark Bell is a decent forward, but doesn't really get anything the Leafs need. I think Raycroft played reasonable last year and the Leafs really leaned on him.
In reality, the Leafs gave up what could have been a huge upgrade at forward (opportunity at Cherepanov, who is a gifted forward and provided the team is willing to get him here, it'll be well worth it (lol, Rangers)).
In short - the Leafs made a marginal short term deal, because of the hype that Raycroft was not tested or pushed enough (even though the Leafs defence was porous and often injured).
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Post by sens on Jun 23, 2007 3:02:20 GMT -5
I have to disagree...
a 1st, 2nd and 4th.....
for
Toskala and Bell
is not a bad deal. Cherepanov is a season away from coming to NA. Minimum. If at all.
A 2nd is a dp...a risk to even make the NHL....4th...even more a risk....
Instead, we have a 30 yr old 1a/b tender and a forward many thought was about to break out to be a pt per game player. Did not happen, but still is an nhl forward. Will the first and 2nd become better NHL players....I don't know, check back in 5-6 yrs, but I bet that Toskala signs a long term deal, Raycroft and him work well together and improve the Leafs defense overall and Bell works well as a 2nd line winger, maybe even first with Sundin. Lets see how things turn out but I am of the opinion this is a decent deal for the LEafs. jh
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Post by ianintheam on Jun 23, 2007 7:40:57 GMT -5
I think it's a great move for the Leafs, as it gives their fans something to bitch about. Bad/questionable hockey moves are the gasoline that fuels the leaf nation.
I can't wait for the Leafs/Penguins games next year. Now when we make fun of them, they can't come back with Kansas City Jokes, which tended to shut us up. They have nothing to defend themselves.
Sixty-Seven! Clap Clap Clap-Clap-Clap!!!
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Post by coloradogm on Jun 23, 2007 8:33:03 GMT -5
Cherepanov is a season away from coming to NA. Minimum. If at all. A season away from coming... Big deal! That is the problem with the Leafs. Constantly living in the now without considering the future. It is pretty pathetic that our most exciting players in the past 15 years have been Mats Sundin, Doug Gilmour and ....... Dave Andreychuk? I mean, look at our 1st round picks from the past 20 years: 1987: Luke Richardson (7th overall) 1988: Scott Pearson (6th overall) 1989: Scott Thornton (3rd overall), Rob Pearson (12th overall) Steve Bancroft (21st overall) 1990: Drake Berehowsky (10th overall) 1991: none 1992: Brandon Convery (8th overall) and Grant Marshall (23rd overall) 1993: Kenny Jonsson (12th overall) and Landon Wilson (19th overall) 1994: Eric Fichaud (16th overall) 1995: Jeff Ware (15th overall) 1996: none 1997: none 1998: Nik Antropov (10th overall) 1999: Luca Cereda (24th overall) 2000: Brad Boyes (24th overall) 2001: Carlo Colaiacovo (17th overall) 2002: Alexander Steen (24th overall) 2003: none 2004: none 2005: Tuukka Rask (21st overall) 2006: Jiri Tlusty (13th overall) 2007: none So we still have Tlusty, Steen, Colaiacovo and Antropov... Two of our best 1st round picks in Boyes, Rask were traded... Cereda, Ware, Fichaud, Wilson, Convery, Marshall, Berehowsky, Thornton, Pearson, Bancroft, and Pearson were all busts. 1989:
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Post by Bryce - Minny on Jun 23, 2007 10:10:42 GMT -5
I thought this was a huge steal by the Leafs. I think Toskala is a serious upgrade over Razor (who I like) and Bell is a serviceable forward who has some upside still.
The problem with rebuilding a team like the Leafs is they charge so much for tickets, they can't afford to rebuild. They have to make deals like this, unless they get someone in as GM who is above being fired (like Slats in NYR).
Now with 2 legit starting goalies, the Laughs can pick up a forward should they need one, because someone is always looking for a tender. I think Bell pots 20 goals this season as well, if he stays off the bottle.
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Post by Jackets on Jun 23, 2007 10:40:49 GMT -5
On paper it is a pretty even trade, but from an overall strategic point of view it is a sup-par move. Like Clint said Toskala is an upgrade but not a big upgrade from Razor.... and while Bell is a pretty good foward, there are many players on Leafs roster doing the same role. Giving up a few picks plus an option for the Sharks to choose which 1st rounder to pick is not a wise move in Leafs position. If the Leafs are a real contender then the move make sense, but they don't really have a lot of high end prospect/young players.... jury is still out on Steen, and I am not all that high on Pogge, Tlusty will be good but doubt he will be a super star. Rather take some chances and get more prospects than just marginal upgrades.
IMHO, a playmaker with some size to play with the twin towers, putting Sundin and Wellwood together (doesn't matter who play center) will be more effective. A minor upgrade in goal is just what it is, a minor improvement on performance.
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