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Post by Nashville Predators on Feb 7, 2004 18:45:09 GMT -5
HabsGM, I'm glad I broke through to one of you guys. Yes if a GM plays the desperation game he will up the bid to above market value. But at least that GM is actually signing that player to what he wants to offer instead of winging it with an estimation and seeing how close you are?
Anybody listen to hockey games broadcast on the radio and they list off three people who have predicted the total shots for the game and the person who gets the closest without going over wins something? That is exactly what the current system reminds me of. It's a crap shoot. And GMs over pay. Linden, god love him, is overpaid at $3.8M in my opinion. I made that offer. That's my problem. I like the guy and had to up my offer after I made the top 3 to make sure I got him. Did I need to up the offer? We'll never know.
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Post by FincanSJGM on Feb 8, 2004 1:46:26 GMT -5
The thing you guys are ignoring is that there were minimum bids set on players in the last offseason, as well as maximums, but that is an umimportant detalis isnt it. Of course it is because it does not help your case.
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Post by FincanSJGM on Feb 8, 2004 1:53:37 GMT -5
Bryce: the fact that you cant go and sign a bunch of UFAs when you are rebuilding adds to the reality of FHL. How many UFAs want to go out of their way to sign with rebuiding teams (I have not seen many contendors with low salaries). In leagues when a team full of 22 year olds signs 3 high priority UFAs, this is not realistic.
I system because, like in the nhl, good teams with high salaries are able to sign guys still, while low cap teams are able to sign as well. This gives parity as the best will sign with the, generally, weaker teams and the mid to low range UFAs will be the ones siging with the better teams.
I want to note that I was not one of these teams last year as I had about 14 million in cap room come free agency.
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Post by CrismonCapsGM on Feb 8, 2004 6:51:14 GMT -5
And I'd like to note that you're advocating a blind system where you have no clue how much a guy wants, he doesn't tell you if he likes your offer or not, and he'd rather sign with another team for millions less becasue he was on their list higher. Don't feed me that stuff about "reality." In reality, teams DO bid for players services, and agents tell teams if they want more.
Not to mention, the NHL has no salary cap. The BRHL does. In the NHL, if the Red Wings could only offer Joe Sakic 3 million dollars a year, and the Blue Jackets could offer him 9, he'd probably sign with the Blue Jackets. Don't compare the NHL to our FA system, because the salary cap makes that comparision pretty much useless.
So, now that we've decided the NHL doesn't matter in this instance, look strictly at the impact on the BRHL. The priority list system is in place simply to give everyone a fair shot whether they should have a fair shot or not. It's stupid. If it's only in place to protect dumb GMs from themelves, then the BRHL has a very low opinion of its GMs and is leading itself down a path of only making things worse. How you think bidding as much as you can possibly afford to make sure you get that UFA you want in a blind system rather than bidding what is required to attain a players services is going is going to help quell salary inflation is beyond me. In instance 1, the player gets exactly what was required to sign him, no more no less. In instance 2, the player gets what some GM offered him in a desparate attempt to get him and outbid all the other crazy GMs.
If you want to maintain a silly blind priority list system just so no team gets more than one big name UFA, regardless of their salary space, then just admit that's your motivation.
I don't care about your dumb league where some guy got overpaid. If that league was really that bad, I would have quit it, and if the BRHL ever gets to that, I'll quit it too.
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Post by CrismonCapsGM on Feb 8, 2004 6:55:43 GMT -5
I system because, like in the nhl, good teams with high salaries are able to sign guys still, while low cap teams are able to sign as well. This gives parity as the best will sign with the, generally, weaker teams and the mid to low range UFAs will be the ones siging with the better teams. This would still happen. There IS a salary cap. No one team could sign every single player, regardless of their cap space. You seem to think an auction system would result in one team with huge cap space upping the bids an enormous amount on every single player so noone would top it. This would just be stabbing yourself in the foot, and no halfway intelligent GM would do it. You'd end up with a team full of untradeable players. I don't give a crap if you're worried about dumb GMs screwing up teams. If you really think the GMs in this league are that dumb, you should fire them. Stop trying to protect the league from itself, and let it grow. Yes, there's going to be idiots every now and thne, but that's inevitable in any system. Trying to stop them from being idiots is never going to happen.
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Post by FincanSJGM on Feb 8, 2004 11:54:16 GMT -5
1. I cant fire GMs. Also I think 90% of the BRHL GMs are good (yourslef included even though we never see eye to eye, I recognize what you bring to the table), but with so many new GMs and a few that I have never been partial too there is a good chance there will be some idiots. Maybe your league doenst have any, but I have never witnessed it anywhere myself so I have a hard time believing it.
2. I care about that dumb league because it is what provides me experience with this type of systsem.
3. Im not trying to stop teams from getting two big name UFAs so that is not my motiviation. I would admit it if that was, but its not. Yes I do like the current system because I play it very well. Last year I just barely lost out on Sakic to you, had I got him I would have had Sakic, Primeau, Scott Thornton, and Ronning all sign with me. If I remember correclty I couldnt have afforded Ronning had I signed the first 3, but that is not really the point. So yes I do like the current system because I have comone of the winners in both years that we have used it.
4. Yes the system is not like the NHL, true enough. We all know that we can never emmulate the nhl exaclty, so we put in systems that allow us to emmulate it some (that teams can sign players with money but also with the lure of a cup etc) but also provide some parity. I think the current system does that. I like this, I like there there is some semblence of reality (even a good team can sign good plaers) but that it is kept in check (they are not likley to sign an expensive guy and go over the cap, which brings parity.
5. Im not saying your idea is bad. I actually think it is better than a lot of free agency systems out there. I just prefer the curent system, so yeah I am advocating a blind system.
6. Even in this system Sakic would not sign for 3 million if he is a first priority over 9 million in someones second priority. Like I said, there was maximums and minimums placed on each UFA last year so he would jump to a the second priority if he had not received a godo enough offer. The system combines salary with desire for the player to be there and I think it works well.
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Post by Ricky GM Leafs on Feb 9, 2004 2:02:41 GMT -5
Hi all, I'm one of the "newbie" GMs mentioned, so I figure I'll throw in my 2cents as well... Personally, I like the new ebay style bidding process under discussion. From what I've read, I feel there is too much fear of one team with lots and lots of cap room "hogging all the good players". IMHO, it doesn't matter because if a GM wants to dedicate 50-60% of his payroll towards 2-3 players, that's his choice. (It simply means this GM can't afford to bid on other UFA players.) As for GMs who lose out on superstar players upping the salary of 2nd-tier players, I don't know if this has been mentioned but what if we strictly enforce the salary cap during bidding (ie. count all bids as salary). On top of that, the money committed to losing bids cannot be "freed up" until 48 hours after that player has signed. (an attempt to prevent GMs from switching targets) I am not really sure what can be done to solve this problem, just throwing out ideas.... In my other league, (ZBHL), we also use the blind bidding system and every year, at least one player gets a hugh contract that is way above his "market value". I truly believe an ebay bidding process will prevent this from happening. On top of that, it will make GM participation very high in the off-season. In the blind bidding process, an inactive GM can just send in a monsterous contract to begin with, and "sit out FA" until the dust has settled. With the new method, active GMs will benefit while inactive ones will not. Moreover, GMs who check at least once every two days will not be penalized either because of the rolling deadline. (as discussed already in previous posts) Anyways, a lot of babble and such in there. Have a read and let me know what you all think. Ricky. GM Leafs.
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Post by Jackets on Feb 9, 2004 22:22:17 GMT -5
With the current process, there is luck involve, and it becomes unfair. When I put forth all the skills, hard work, manage things properly and you tell me I still have to depend my bidding on luck? (I have enough bad luck and too much "so-so" luck as it is already, thank you very much)
With the proposed process at least I will know I got out bid and not got screwed by bad luck.
This is not gambling or playing poker, everything in BRHL should be based on wits and skills and not luck.
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